I recently posted this blog as part of my irritated reply to this podcast by the CGS crew in which someone had bought Hawk and Dove #2 and I got a reply:
This is a link to the forum and here's the relevant posts, incase you can't be bothered clicking:
Here's me:
Pants.Here's the reply from David D.
I honestly don't get the point of expending energy railing against Liefeld at this point. Those that don't like him know what to expect, and will avoid his work, those that do like him will seek it out and buy it. What is there left to be said?
And it got me thinking; have comic readers become apathetic to their own medium? You see the point I was trying to make is Rob Liefeld is bad for comics and any potential audience of comics, yet people still work towards making him popular. There are the likes of him in every medium, Uwe Boll, Rick Berman and Kid Rock all find work while lovers of film, television and music all wonder how and why. Does this mean that we shouldn't try and better those mediums by outing these talentless poo flingers? Boycotting their output, critiquing in the name of informing? No of course not. So WHY do comic fans insist on getting all worked up over this...
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| The only thing distasteful about this image was the reaction it got from fanboys.. |
and yet THIS...
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| Won't some one please think of the children! OH the humanity! This is supposed to be on a plane by the way. |
gets a free pass with comments like 'it's a guilty pleasure' or 'well I've always been a fan...'. I was a fan of laying on my back and gently filling my nappy at one time, till my wife got sick of it.
Black Spidey AKA Miles Morales was a big enough topic that even got some outsider press. Fanboy reaction to Miles though made comic readers look like a bunch of fuck nuggets. But if fanboys are so apathetic then why react to that and not Liefeld? Because Miles represented a big change to their beloved status quo, it rattled their world enough for them to make complete idiots of themselves. Whereas things like Liefeld, shitty comics and practices therein have become such a part of the comic book landscape that everyone just hikes over them accepting that they are just there.
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| My apologies and thanks to whomever this gentleman is. |
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| Thanks Mister Schultz. |
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| At least he's happy... |
is clearly bullet proof to insult coated rounds, so the issue is clearly not a lack self awareness.
No, the big problem is fanboys are happy being apathetic.
Apathy should not be a replacement for accepting crap, especially in a medium that has so little awareness from the public. Comic readers need to be heard if the medium is to survive. That means being able to separate the wheat from the chaff, the good comics from the bad and not making a tit out of yourself because Spider-Man now has a melanin count higher than yours. I'm not about to sit on my arse and listen to anyone defend a bad comic, especially by being apathetic. I'm not talking about a comic that I personally don't like or read but a properly awful comic that is to the artform what Michael Barrymore is to pool hygiene.
The difference between me and an apathetic fanboy is that I'm turning the energy that they used to rant about a black Spider-Man into ranting about the state of something I'm passionate about.
Apathy should not be a replacement for accepting crap, especially in a medium that has so little awareness from the public. Comic readers need to be heard if the medium is to survive. That means being able to separate the wheat from the chaff, the good comics from the bad and not making a tit out of yourself because Spider-Man now has a melanin count higher than yours. I'm not about to sit on my arse and listen to anyone defend a bad comic, especially by being apathetic. I'm not talking about a comic that I personally don't like or read but a properly awful comic that is to the artform what Michael Barrymore is to pool hygiene.
The difference between me and an apathetic fanboy is that I'm turning the energy that they used to rant about a black Spider-Man into ranting about the state of something I'm passionate about.
Long story short: I'll stop ranting about shit comics when people stop buying shit comics.
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| So much effort... |
I strongly agree with this post. Like you say, fanboys would rather defend their mediocrity/outright bad comics to the death than take a chance on something new.
ReplyDeleteYou can call my response apathy if you'd like. I don't see it that way, but so it goes. It seems that you wanted to use what I said as a jumping off point to just make a lot of broad and pejorative generalizations about comics fans, and why you see things better and more clearly than many (most?) of them do, so what I actually said is probably circumstantial anyway.
ReplyDeletePersonally, I came to an age where I realized more and more that my own tastes and preferences were not objective truths, particularly when it comes to what art I like and what I don't.
And so I just don't see the point in expending energy getting upset if other people like something I don't like. It is not apathy for me to realize that what you dig is subjective, and there are enough choices in comics that I don't need to worry if things are being made that are not for my appetite.
If that makes me apathetic, so be it. But there are bigger fish to fry, even within the narrow subject of talking comics, than ranting about the one or two Liefeld comics a month on the market. (And, I'm sorry, but don't think think railing against Liefeld, of all people, is something the Internets sort of have covered? Maybe have had covered since the days of dial-up?)
But, it is your blog, and your right to be passionate about whatever you want. For what it is worth, I am more compelled by passion spent recommending what you feel someone should read, and why, than passion spent ranting against "shit comics".
If your goal is to try to influence the reading of others and to bring them over to your superior point of view, then maybe the best way to get people to stop reading the comics you don't like is to turn them on to the ones you do is to put this sort of energy into championing works that you feel don't get enough attention rather than piling on a person whose work could generate pages and pages of search results for posts just like yours.
-- David D.
Ok fine, you're apathetic. Now read my post again carefully and please note that it's not the only one and that some of the others even have a positive slant.
ReplyDeleteI want to support comics as a medium, I would love to create comics (but that's my problem to solve) and I have a deep rooted urge to support the underdog, this means,for me, comics.
Liefeld is simply a jumping off point in that piece not the focus of it and indeed I hope to never sully my blog with him again.
My point of view isn't 'superior' but at least it's a point of view and not just a blind acceptance that the world around me happens whether I like it or not.
We are the same age by the way and I'm relieved that my passion hasn't died.
I could write more, but it will only be turned into what you would like to respond to, rather than what I am actually saying. So I will save us both time and leave you to your straw men.
ReplyDeleteno.
ReplyDeleteYou see, "there are bigger fish to fry, even within the narrow subject of talking comics, than ranting about the one or two Liefeld comics a month on the market."
Like rising prices, idiotic marketing practices, in fighting, poor public awareness, the eventual collapse of floppies and the hopeful rise of trades, the fact that comics are the ninth art in France and no one feels like a twat reading them on the train in Japan AND so on AND so forth. It's one blog, how much time do you think I have?
I did a rant about Liefeld because it was getting on my tits, I take back what I said, I'll keep using him as a whipping boy in my posts because he's an easy target but I won't dedicate another blog just to him.
You already did become what I was talking about. You spent time and energy railing against something that frankly had more tongue in cheek than a gay porn video and generalised because it makes it easier and shorter to get peoples attention and kick start a debate. If you honestly think I feel this way about every comic reader then you are tragically mistaken. I happen to know at lest two I find tolerable.
If you want a fine example of apathy look to the CGS forums. There are several THOUSAND CGS listeners. 30 posters.
As I said, so long as people are still doing shitty things in comics and buying shitty comics I'll keep ranting thanks.
" Personally, I came to an age where I realized more and more that my own tastes and preferences were not objective truths, particularly when it comes to what art I like and what I don't. "
ReplyDeleteTaste is subjective. Quality, on the other hand, is open for debate. Over a century of comics (and the entirety of human civilization leading up to that) has given us a pretty good knowledge base to determine what makes a well-constructed work and what doesn't. And it sure as hell isn't Rob Liefeld, whose work is still well below professional standards.